Larry Stone believes Edgar Martinez will eventually make the Hall of Fame.
It will be an uphill battle for the reasons that we all know: Edgar was primarily a designated hitter, and a prejudice against DHs remains with some Hall voters; Edgar didn’t get 3,000 hits, or anywhere close (largely because he didn’t get a regular job until his mid-20s, an injustice that still haunts hard-core M’s fans); and Edgar played in relative obscurity in Seattle (although I think this has become on easy cliched response; they have television and the internet and all these other new-fangled things these days that bring the entire world together; why is Seattle any more obscure than any other outpost that are not L.A. or New York or Chicago?).
And yet I believe that a strong case can and will be made for Martinez that shows his worthiness. Martinez in many ways is the antithesis of Jim Rice, whose surface stats and reputation as “a feared hitter” eventually brought him to Cooperstown, while those with a sabermetric bent howled about his unworthiness. Edgar Martinez is an example of a hitter whose credentials grow stronger the deeper you delve into his numbers. I have a hunch that the more sophisticated analysts are going to wind up advocating for Martinez with passion.
Let me get the party started. With stats by position going back to 1974, we have the careers at the position by most designated hitters. In looking at the list, there are two players who stand out as elite designated hitters, and that’s Martinez and David Ortiz (I think Frank Thomas played enough first base in his career that DH won’t count against him that much). It’s my contention that every position deserves to be represented in the Hall of Fame, and DH has been a position for 37 seasons. No one did it better than Edgar. It’s analogous to my positions on closers. There should be closers in the Hall of Fame, but there should be very few and only the best of the best. As one of the two best designated hitters ever, Edgar does indeed deserve a place in the Hall. One DH every 30 or 40 years seems about right to me.
Posted by David Pinto at 12:50 pm | All-Time Greats | Permalink | 8 Comments
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November 9th, 2009 @ 1:34 pm
DH is a bogus position, and they should do away with it altogether. It’s a job for players who can swing a bat, but cannot play any other position well enough to earn a spot on a team. That’s fine for an aging slugger, but no career DH deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. Edgar was a good hitter, but overall an inadequate baseball player. And he does not get any bonus points for staying on the same team his whole career.
November 9th, 2009 @ 6:17 pm
I would also argue that Matsui’s MVP of the WS this year helps Edgar’s cause since it validates the DH as a game-changing position.
November 10th, 2009 @ 12:36 am
Harold Baines had 75 more home runs (384-309), 367 more RBI (1628-1261) and 619 more hits (2866-2247) than Edgar. The only players with more hits than Baines who are not in the Hall are Bonds, Palmeiro, Biggio, and Rose (Baines is 40th on the list). He is 29th on the RBI list, the only non-HoFers ahead of him are Sosa, Sheffield, Thomas, A-Rod, Manny R, Griffey, Palmeiro and Bonds. Before he was injured, Harold was an excellent outfielder with a fine arm, but Edgar was a barely adequate third baseman. I always liked Edgar, but if we need a DH in the Hall, there are several better candidates, Baines among them.
November 10th, 2009 @ 9:04 pm
Baines put up those numbers because he played forever. He was an above-average player for two decades, and played until he was like 42 or 43. But he rarely even what we would call a “star” player. He was just a good ballplayer.
Edgar Martinez, through no fault of his own (he was ready for the majors two or three years before the Mariners gave him a chance), didn’t get to put up huge counting stats. But he won two batting titles, one RBI crown, one runs score crown, led the league three times in on-base percentage and once in OPS. He was a .312 lifetime hitter with an OPS+ of 147. (Baines was .289 and 120.)
Also, Martinez wasn’t moved to DH because he was a bad fielder; he was about average. He moved to DH because the Mariners acquired another guy who could play third, and they didn’t want their resident .340 hitter risking injury when they had another third baseman.
November 11th, 2009 @ 4:22 pm
DH is not a position. It is a permanent pinch-hitter. And no one who ever wore a glove should be in the Hall of Fame.
November 11th, 2009 @ 4:57 pm
@Vidor: I think you meant never.
November 11th, 2009 @ 8:45 pm
If Martinez was just a little more athletic/healthy and played a below average first base, he would go from being an elite DH to an excellent offensive first baseman. Just not good enough for the hall of fame.
It seems silly to reward Edgar with the HOF, when we wouldn’t if he were more athletic.
The reason he’s the best DH is because a lot of other guys were athletic enough to play defense.
November 13th, 2009 @ 4:41 pm
The argument is not (or should not) be that the best at each position makes it in the Hall, but rather that no position should arbitrarily be excluded. In other words, it is not that the best player at each position should be in the Hall, but rather that players who play exceptionally well at a position, and who meets the other requirements (i.e. playing time ect.) should be in, without excluding players because of position.
In the specific case of Edgar Martinez, there seems to be two types of arguments against his Hall of Fame credentials: that he played primarily at DH and that he did not reach any of the special numbers in the counting stat catagories which have traditionally been HoF benchmarks. I think some people tie them together, in that because Edgar was primarily a DH during his career, he should be held to a higher standard in the statistics catagory.
The argument for Edgar isn’t that he is far and away the best DH ever, but the fact that he IS far and away the best DH ever indicates a level of performance that bares a closer look.
If you don’t buy the argument based on statistics, fine. I for one think he should be in on the basis of his consistent greatness (though perhaps not superstar-ness). Career (Starting late a age 27) AVG .312, OBP .418, SLG .515, OPS .933., OPS+ 147, with 514 doubles is good enough for me.