The AL Gold Gloves came out, and once again Derek Jeter won at shortstop. The voting needs to be changed here. The voters need to rank at top three or four at each position, rather than voting for a single fielder.
The AL Gold Gloves came out, and once again Derek Jeter won at shortstop. The voting needs to be changed here. The voters need to rank at top three or four at each position, rather than voting for a single fielder.
Can you clarify what you mean by “The voters need to rank at top three or four at each position, rather than voting for a single fielder.”? Do you mean have three or four people receive awards, or have the players and managers narrow the field and then get the winner by a different vote?
It’s hard to see the GG voting being put in the hands of people who actually understand fielding – scouts and statisticians alike – but it’d be nice if they at least balanced the voting with another entity besides the players/coaches. Could make the player vote a collective vote, and give a collective vote to two of the following: IBWAA, BBWAA, and fans.
Awesome, the gold glove probably just solidified 3 years at 20million. Probably done on purpose via the players union!
@JR: The way the gold glove voting works, is that coaches and managers fill out a ballot, choosing a single player at each position. The votes are tallied, and the person receiving the most votes wins. When Rafael Palmeiro won the GG while spending the year as DH, a few people voted for him (like 15%) but the other votes were split among the other first basemen in the league. Most voters thought Palmeiro did not deserve the gold glove. I suspect many vote for a player on their team so they can say, “I voted for you.”
That may be why Jeter wins so many. Maybe a coach or manager saw him make a great play, he’s won them in the past, so he must be good, and it sure beats having to think about it. If voters were forced to rank the top three or top four at each position, then we would get a consensus second choice. So, the Texas coach, out of deference to Elvis Andrus might vote him first. The second choice he needs to think about. That’s how the Cy Young, MVP, and Rookie of the Year are decided. It’s a better voting system.
Yeah, good point, that’s a plausible theory of why Jeter wins.
Tarik, yeah, it’s very likely that Cashman will pony up an extra $5M/year because Jeter just won another GG.
So it’s not done like the Cy Young, with 10 points for being #1, 9 for being #2, etc?
Even as a Yankee fan I can’t defend this.
Excellent suggestion and analysis, David. One minor point: Everything I’ve read says that managers can’t vote for their own players, so that’s not an issue. But it’s still probably too easy for the people who are paying attention to split their votes among different deserving candidates, allowing the legacy candidates to sneak through with a tiny plurality.
David: Thanks for the clarification. My mind didn’t translate that over to the other voting systems.
I thought players and coaches can’t vote for people from their own team: http://www.baseball-almanac.com/awards/aw_ggnl.shtml
@JR: Yes, I didn’t realize they can’t vote for their own, which is a good thing. Still, a ranked list would solve most of these problems.
david by your own admission you didnt even know the rules for voting which eliminates you from being a knowledgeable source for this. Uzr is a flawed metric in its own right. until theres is something that isnt flawed its best to let coaches and managers who are employed by the sport decide.
is Jeter the best Shortstop? possibly not, but every team is different and there are to many factors as variables to say for certain
There is a large anti jeter jealousy among fans
that has taken on a life of its own
@David: It’s definitely a better idea than the current method. I just didn’t understand from the post.
@Joey P: Jeter is definitely not the best shortstop. By any standard: observational evidence or fielding statistics. Go read River Ave Blues, who are certainly not jealous of the Yankees or Jeter, for evidence that even Yankees fans can’t defend Jeter winning.
JR, totally agree, except I think you put the last line badly. Even Yankee fans *don’t* defend Jeter winning. The way you put it, it sounds like we (I’m also a River Ave. type Yankee fan) try but fail.
Also, to say (Joey) that until there’s something *that isn’t flawed* it’s best to let coaches and managers decide, is like saying that until there are medical diagnostics that are absolutely perfect, it’s best to let witch doctors treat you.
These awards are something that calls for the “alternative vote” method of voting.
Essentially you rank your choices as David said, listing a second choice, third choice, and so on. One person wins. But to win, you have to get at least 50% plus one, no winning with 15%. If no one gets 50%, you eliminate the last place candidate from consideration, and the second (or next viable) choices of the people who voted for him get counted as if they were first choices. Keep doing this until someone gets 50% plus one.
Its probably better known here as “instant run-off” (not quite the same, but very similar). The difference with the weighted voting that is used for things like the Cy Young is that that the lower ranked choices are ignored unless no-one gets 50% plus one, then you look at the lower ranked choices of the people who voted for the less popular candidates.
@Ed: I like the Borda count, but instant runoff is also a good alternative.
Look guys, it’s just a lazyness thing…and a stuborn thing.
Manager ‘A’ gets a voting form, has about 1 hr to fill it our before going on vacation, thinks…
“who won it last year?’ – Jeter? good player, makes some outstanding plays, always gives it 100%, His team do well? Well yes in the playoffs, you don’t make the playoffs with a rubbish SS…what’s his fielding %? Wow no. 1? that’ll do for me, final check? any other candidates? Well that Andrus is too wet behind the ears, can’t think of any others..Jeter will do”
for example.
Anyway, where the informed tinternet people may win the battle is pointing out under-appreciated people using metrics (i.e. F. Gut from SEA), bit of any outcry last year, bit of hype, people watching him this year, thus appreciation this time.
Where you won’t win the battle is pointing out using adv. DEF stats that a player the old guard thinks is a GG is not (Jeter) – because stubborness kicks in (i imagine baseball old schoolers are even more stubborn than normal guys) and they are even more likely to oppose your point of view.
you can apply the analogy to Bert and Morris, Rice and Raines etc…