Alex Remington notes this quote from Torii Hunter:
Torii Hunter said the early edge will be Darvish’s, but time is on the hitters’ side. He said he gradually became more and more comfortable facing Boston Red Sox pitcher Daisuke Matsuzaka, another mega-star to emerge from Japan.
“All of the Japanese pitchers have pretty much the same style,” Hunter said. “They throw almost the same breaking pitches, almost the same off-speed stuff, pitch in the same way. In fastball counts, they throw a lot of off-speed stuff and they have an explosive fastball. It might be 92 (mph), but it has a little extra get-up.”
Remington continues:
There are a couple of ways to hear that quote. It might just be gamesmanship: maybe Hunter is just razzing Darvish. It might be ignorance, with a faint whiff of prejudice, which is how a few of my friends initially reacted. Or maybe… just maybe, he might be onto something.
Alex does do some research, but his sample sizes are so small that I don’t believe there is a clear conclusion. That said, there used to be a perceived difference in patterns between AL and NL pitchers. Most hitters thought AL hurlers pitched backwards, throwing off-speed pitches in fastball counts more often than in the National League. So a league can have a culture of pitching.
In this case, however, I’m betting on a “faint whiff of prejudice.” This was Torii two years ago in spring training:
“People see dark faces out there, and the perception is that they’re African American. They’re not us. They’re impostors.
“Even people I know come up and say, ‘Hey, what color is Vladimir Guerrero? Is he a black player?’ I say, ‘Come on, he’s Dominican. He’s not black.’ “
Hunter did apologize for the remarks the next day, but fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
How is this Racial? He was saying that they have the same style, and always get figured out by MLB hitters. This seems right on point… Not racial
I think most are missing an important point: most Japanese pitchers come over in their late 20s and early 30s. They simply decline like everyone else, even if they successfully adjust to the different schedule, different ball, better hitters, etc.
Pitchers start their decline at about 32, although that may be earlier for Japanese pitchers given the abuse when they are young.
For SP’ers who came over from the NPL there have only been 7 with 15 or more starts (ERA)
Daisuke ( 4.25) and Nomo (4.24) were 26
Irabu (5.15) and Ishii (4.44) were 28
Kuroda (3.45) ,Kawakami ( 4.32) and Yoshi (4.62) age 33-34
Except for Irabu and Yoshii, they all did ok until age/injuries got them. Nomo had some tough years after his brilliant start before pitching well again. Daisukes abuse in Japan caught up with him.
Of course there have been failures like Igawa and his 6.66 ERA. He came over at age 27 and only made 13 starts
Some pretty good relievers as well (those with
100 or more games)
ERA (age came over)
Sasaki-3.14 (32)
Hasegawa-3.70 (28)
Saito-2.18 (36)
Okajima-3.11 (31)
Takahashi-3.55 (35)
Yabu-4.00 (36)
Uehara-3.13 (34)
Anyways, Hunter is very fortunate he can make a living playing baseball.
PFT, pitchers peak at age 27. Don’t forget that the pitchers still around after age 27-28 or so are the better ones. The pitchers who decline more quickly than average, or weren’t as good to begin with, drop out of the league. What you are left with is a sample biased towards those who are better, healthier, or luckier.
Pitchers hit their peak at 27 but maintain that level for up to 5 years before declining. FB velocity starts to decline slightly after 28 but pitchers compensate for that with better secondary pitchers, command and learning how to pitch better.
Sure, I suppose some pitchers, the exceptional ones, do that.
I don’t know how you define exceptional, but Japanese pitchers generally have a track record and would not get a chance to play in the MLB unless they are pretty good.
Many pitchers who get a chance at the MLB from the minors flame out pretty quick.
“Pitchers were overwhelmingly exiting the talent pool after their first year. Thirty-eight percent of all starting pitchers who had a season in which they faced 250 batters did not have another such season. ”
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=10095#commentMessage
I guess that means MLB hitters figure them out pretty quick. In that sense, Japanese pitchers do pretty well, albeit in a small sample.
The only point we are in disagreement about is the age at which pitchers, in general, peak. See Tango’s study here:
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/article/when_do_pitchers_peak/
and one by BP that suggests that pitchers who debut later, peak slightly later as well; but that their most common age of “flame out” was 27.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=10095
Over the last couple decades, study after study has determined that peak ages for hitters and pitchers are a bit earlier than was commonly thought. I think this is largely due to the biased sample I mentioned above. The players we think about and remember are the successful ones that stick around longer, precisely because they are above average and do well at age 30 or so.