Devon Young writes:
With Ichiro nearing 4000 MLB + Nippon hits, I got to wondering how difficult it is to reach 4000 hits even if we combine MLB hits with MiLB (minor league) hits and/or other “major” leagues. It’s more of a lifetime achievement than just an MLB achievement. I think you’ll find this interesting too…
The Lifetime Achievement 4000 Hit Club + 2 Soon-to-be’s
4683 Pete Rose (4256 MLB + 427 MiLB)
4355 Ty Cobb (4189 MLB + 166+ MiLB) [we are missing a few of his MiLB hits]
4095 Hank Aaron (3771 MLB + 324 MiLB)
4002 Julio Franco (2586 MLB + 658 MiLB + 286 Nippon + 156 Korea + 316 Mexico)
4001 Stan Musial (3630 MLB + 371 MiLB)
3993 Ichiro Suzuki (2715 MLB + 1278 Nippon) [thru 8/11/2013 game]
3859 Derek Jeter (3308 MLB + 551 MiLB) [could reach it in a couple years]
There’s 3 other notable players too —1. Jake Beckley (HOFer) possibly reached 4000 hits. He had 2934 MLB hits, and we know about 902 MiLB hits. That leaves him short of 4k by just 164, but we don’t have stats for him from 3 seasons. One of those seasons, directly preceed a year where he smacked out 234 hits. So it’s entirely possible he could’ve made the 4000 mark and we just don’t know it yet.
3. Sam Crawford might’ve reached 4000 too. He had 2961 MLB hits, and we know about 845 MiLB hits… but, we don’t know any of his hit total from 1899, so if he had 141+ hits that season, then he reached 4k. It’s unlikely he did, but even if he failed to reach it, he comes really close.
3. Tris Speaker comes very close to 4k too, having 3514 MLB + 451 MiLB for a total of 3965 combined hits.
…that’s as far as I’ve found, and I checked through the top 50 MLB career hit list. I didn’t count winter leagues, barnstorming games, or things like that. Also, I’m just eyeballing likely suspects ’cause I don’t have a proper DB set up for checking this kind of thing.
Great stuff. Thanks Devon!
Jigger Statz 4093. 3356 minors, 737 majors.
I do think MLB post season stats should be added to the aggregate. Presumably, the level of the competition and the situation should make those hits even more valuable than regular season MLB hits, let alone minor league hits
dch » There was a movie made about Babe Ruth after his death, The Babe Ruth Story. Bad movie, but when Ruth walks away from the game, a friend in the stands adds up his home runs, giving his career total including the post season and even the All-Star game I believe. At least in 1948, 714 did not seem to be the magic number.
I remember reading a Bill James article about Ruth’s Record. Up until 1961, Ruth’s Record was not the 714 homers, but the 60 homers in a single season. Only after Maris hit 61 did people start venerating 714.
ever read the book “The Year Babe Ruth hit 104 homeruns”
dch » No, I’ll have to look it up.
Ichiro should not be credited with 4000 MLB hits. At the same time, he has accomplished more than this post implies. Suzuki’s 1278 Japanese hits do not include 156 additional in their minor league system. So credit him with 4149 on the list above.
Beyond that, why imply that his Japanese ML hit total is less worthy than his AL total? Japanese seasons consist of fewer games and fewer chances to get a hit.
In 2000, playing for Orix at age 26 in Japan, Ichiro had 153 hits in 105 games (1.46/game). In 2001, playing for Seattle at age 27, he was credited with 242 hits in 157 games (1.54).
So about how many AL hits would he have banged out if he had been able to play 1994-2000 with Seattle? Perhaps more than 1278. . . .
@ Dave the book goes over his 1921 59 HR season where he was still playing home games at the Polo grounds. It extrapolates all these massive hits, both home and away, he had that would have been HRs in average dimension parks. It assumes a 162 game season and , I think I am remembering this right, he had a number of home runs that were fair went they went over the wall but then curved or landed foul which based on the rules back then(which have been changed), meant it was a foul ball and not a HR
Dave,
Growing up in the era you mentioned, 60 was the magic number, but 714 was also held in reverence. Keep in mind that as late as 1960, Only Foxx, Williams and Ott had broken the 500 barrier and his total was still 180 ahead of the nearest runner up.
In fact, the number was so well thought of that baseball fan Jack Webb honored the Babe by having Sgt Joe Friday carry badge #714.
dch » Cool.
Vinnie » Thanks, Vinnie. I didn’t realize that was the inspiration for Friday’s number!
dch – awesome stuff! I agree with you, the post-season stats shouldn’t be left separate. I just put this list together quick and didn’t feel like lookin’ up all the post-season stuff & adding that in too.
PS. thanks Vinnie, I never heard of Jigger. I wondered if anyone in the PCL might’ve had a high hit total but I didn’t know where to look without taking hours to find.
Dude, it’s crazy not to count post season in your little study, they are actually worth far more IMO
I’m looking at an old daguerreotypes and it shows that Crawford’s record for 1899 with two teams as follows.
Chatham Canadian 73 g 173AB 64H
Col-Grand Rapids Western 60 g 261AB 87H
Beckley’s minor league totals
1886 104
1887 211
1888 41
1908 134
1909 120
1910 123
1911 100
Speaker shows 480 Mlhits, leaving him a tantalizing five short of 4,000.
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@ m… yeah, but this was just done quickly & without the use of a DB query. I didn’t have time to check post-season hits…. which would mean post-season MLB, post-season Nippon, post-season MiLB, etc. Without using a DB, that would take some time.
@ Vinnie… awesome! Where did you find those records? You should let the Retrosheet or Baseball-reference folks know about it so it can be added to his MiLB stats on Baseball-reference. Same with the Beckley stats.