September 11, 2006
Versus the Best
How do you get a feel for the possible success of teams in the post season? One way might be to look how successful teams are against good pitchers. Now, if a ballclub is facing one of the league leaders in ERA, you might not expect them to do very well. A .500 record against this group of pitchers would be a good thing.
If you're headed to the playoffs, chances are you're going to come up against a team with good pitching, possibly much better average pitching than you faced in the regular season. How you fare against that kind of pitching might give us a clue as to how you'll do in the post season.
I haven't done this is a long time, but in 1990 I was looking at this quite closely. The Athletics were doing very well against the league ERA leaders until the last month of the season. They went into a tail spin against these pitchers, but I didn't think much of it. Then, when the Reds swept them away I realized I might have missed a signal.
The in 1998, there was an argument in a Baseball Tonight production meeting about the ability of the Padres to beat the Braves in the post season. One of the associate producers argued that the Braves offense could be shut down by good pitching, so the Padres would beat them. I pulled the old program out, and sure enough it showed the Braves had a lousy record vs. the league leaders in ERA. The Padres won.
Obviously, I need to do more research to see if this really is a good signal. But I wanted to look at the data for this year, to see if it might give us clues to 2006 post-season success. I took the top 40 pitchers in ERA, and looked at their combined stats versus every team. What you see is basically a backward pitching line. It's team wins and losses vs. those pitchers. A good win loss record in this table indicates the team did well against good pitchers.
ARI | 17 | 11 | 0.607 | 4.189 |
LAD | 16 | 12 | 0.571 | 4.052 |
NYA | 13 | 10 | 0.565 | 4.213 |
SF | 16 | 14 | 0.533 | 3.686 |
ATL | 12 | 12 | 0.5 | 4.707 |
TEX | 14 | 16 | 0.467 | 4.118 |
CHA | 14 | 16 | 0.467 | 3.811 |
STL | 14 | 16 | 0.467 | 3.847 |
LAA | 10 | 12 | 0.455 | 3.398 |
DET | 9 | 11 | 0.45 | 2.724 |
MIN | 12 | 16 | 0.429 | 3.732 |
CLE | 14 | 19 | 0.424 | 4.609 |
PHI | 10 | 14 | 0.417 | 4.328 |
WSH | 12 | 17 | 0.414 | 4.121 |
CIN | 9 | 13 | 0.409 | 3.291 |
MIL | 10 | 16 | 0.385 | 3.668 |
SD | 11 | 18 | 0.379 | 3.244 |
CHN | 12 | 20 | 0.375 | 3.52 |
NYN | 11 | 19 | 0.367 | 3.712 |
TOR | 9 | 16 | 0.36 | 3.697 |
SEA | 12 | 23 | 0.343 | 3.787 |
OAK | 8 | 16 | 0.333 | 3.036 |
FLA | 8 | 16 | 0.333 | 2.954 |
PIT | 11 | 23 | 0.324 | 3.617 |
BOS | 9 | 19 | 0.321 | 4.005 |
HOU | 8 | 18 | 0.308 | 2.763 |
TB | 9 | 23 | 0.281 | 2.758 |
COL | 9 | 23 | 0.281 | 2.457 |
BAL | 5 | 14 | 0.263 | 3.675 |
KC | 6 | 18 | 0.25 | 3.555 |
Lots of interesting information here. It's amazing Arizona isn't running away with the West given their record against good pitchers. Maybe they all line up against Webb. The Marlins are the exact opposite. They're battling for the wild card even though they don't do well against the best pitchers. The two teams to watch out for in the post season are the Yankees and Dodgers (that post-season matchup would certainly make Fox happy).
The Mets are the type of team I'm looking for here. New York owns the best record in baseball, but is susceptible to pitchers with low ERAs with an 11-19 record. These pitchers post a 3.72 ERA against New York; the Met usually score 5.3 runs per game. Oakland is in even worse shape at 8-16, although they haven't lost a game to a good pitcher since August 1st (they're 2-0).
A Mets opponent with a good, deep pitching staff can cause a real headache for the team in the playoffs. Keep your eye out for this, and I'll try to do more historical research on this indicator.
I've wondered about that for a long time, so this will be interesting to follow. As followup, it would be interesting to see what types of hitters make up the successful teams: selective hitters with high on base percentages who make the opponent throw strikes? or agressive hitters with power who make them the pitcher pay for the few mistakes they make?
Last year, it seemed like the White Sox pitching ate up the Red Sox because the Red Sox were trying to be patient and get ahead in the count. The White Sox staff threw strikes and turned it around by consistently putting the hitters in a hole.
This *is* an interesting stat. What do we know about its predictive ability? It'd be interesting to study successful playoff teams and see what their records were, or to compare records vs. good pitchers vs. overall records.
This explains how the Mets lost 2 out of 3 to the Dodgers in Shea this weekend.
To Dodger rookies making their first major league starts, no less.
Wondering how statistically significant this is given the sample size. thanks for your thoughts.
They are likely not significant at all. It's just a clue in the puzzle.
I'm a Dodger fan, but Adam, sorry, the Dodgers only took 2 out of 4. Given that the knock against the Dodgers is that they can't beat good teams, I'm very happy with the split.
Thanks, Adam. Cool stuff.
Although the Mets' 3.7 runs is lower than their usual 5.3, that's not the whole problem. If the Mets starters facing off against these aces put up their usual 4 runs per game, the Mets would be about 14-16 in those 30 games.
But they're actually 11-19, meaning either that the Mets aces aren't pitching well in thse pitcher's duels, or the Mets haven't matched their rotations to reflect this season's performances.
I'm always worried about facing good starters. This does nothing to change that one way or the other.
If you look at potential playoff teams in the NL, the Mets should, in theory, have little to worry about as SD is the only team with more than one top pitcher, and the Mets swept SD last time out. The Mets' bigger problem is that they frequently have trouble with pitchers they haven't seen before, as evidenced by the losses to LA. This could bode very badly for them if they reach the WS.
Well, the sample size may be small, but we have lots of past information to look over. For every past season, you could run these numbers and see if there is a trend for the postseason winners to have performed well against good pitchers in the regular season.
Each year by itself is a relatively small sample size, but taken in aggregate it should be relatively easy to determine if there is much merit to this method of study.
Yeah, the small sample size is going to do a number on this stat. For example, the Tigers (4 starters in the Top 40) obliterated the Twins early in the season, but it's hard to say which is the better team right.
Also, are these games in which the starting pitcher received a decision or just games that were started by one of the Top 40?
It's the record of the starting pitchers in all the games started against the club. The record is turned around so it's a won loss record for the team. I didn't figure out the overall record for the team in these games.