This is too good to pass up...

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/9506/pinetarfq3.jpg

Sportscenter showed the same brown spot on his hand during his starts against the A's and Yankees.

I'm not sure I undrstand the controversy - admittedly, I wasn't paying the closest of attention, but Rogers apparently had pine tar on his hand, washed it off between the first and second innings, and then pitched 7 shutout innings. Doesn't seem like the pinetar was doing much. And why would a pitcher want the ball to stick to his hand? I guess maybe he could use it to scuff the ball up? Not sure where the controversy is here - I could see if the pine tar was discovered in the 8th inning, but after the first? I don't get it.

If he had anything on his hand, which he obviously did, he should have been ejected and suspended 10 games per MLB rules. If he had the same thing on his hand agains the A's and Yankees then it just makes it that much worse.

He's had amazing movement on his pitches for the entire post season. I first noticed it back when I was rooting on the tigers to beat the yankees. Tonight it was blatnat that he was cheating, the umpire was informed of it, and the umpire took no action to stop it. The same umpire, mind you, who was behhind home plate in the game against the yankees which Rogers pitched.

If that isn't grounds for controversy, I don't know what is.

It wasn't just the spot on his hand. Watch the game again, and watch the extremely unatural way that he holds his glove when he is in the dugout. There was something in his glove that he didn't want to have fall out, even after his game was over. Also watch and see how many balls that pudge throws out of play instead of handing to the umpire- he doesn't let the umpire see a single ball all night. he throws them to the bat boy or into the tigers dugout.

Didn't notice this before tonight, but it's too late to change anything now. It was La Russa's job to demand an umpire check his hand, and he didn't do that. Neither did anyone from Oakland or New York. I'm not defending Rogers, and I expect this to taint everything he's done, but someone should have made a bigger deal out of this during the game.

As for Rogers being told to wash his hand after the first inning...I'm a little curious about that myself. I'd like to know what, exactly, the umpire saw and said, and what the rules say he should have done. I know the rulebook says Rogers should have been ejected and suspended...but what's the procedure? I'm just wondering if maybe the opposing manager has to be the one to call for a check; I can't really remember a time when an umpire caught someone doctoring a ball without being asked by the opposition to look for it.

The pine tar thing was certainly bizarre, but I'd like to know where the extra 3-4 MPH on his fastball are coming from this October. Interesting observations from all above as well.

I'd like to know where the extra 3-4 MPH on his fastball are coming from this October.

Fox's juiced up radar gun :)

A few points come to mind:

1. If there was brown guck on his hand throughout the playoffs, why didn't anyone complain? Did Fox' cameras not pick it up until last night? Are Joe Torre, Brian Cashman, Ken Macha and Billy Beane too stupid to notice?

2. If the brown guck was indeed pine tar or another banned substance, why didn't the umpires do more than whip out the Purell? Are the umpires involved in a pro-Tiger conspiracy? Or a pro-Kenny Rogers conspiracy? He's not particularly the most beloved figure in the game.

3. As David pointed out, Rogers was at least as effective after the hand-washing as he was before. If the guck was artificially enhancing his performance, how do you explain innings 2 through 8?

Hey, remember the Fox announcers talked about how odd it was that he kept holding his glove even when he was shaking hands in the dugout after coming out after the eighth.

At the time, it just seemed like a quirky personal thing to do, but that would sure fit neatly with the "Kenny Rogers is hiding something" theories that seem to fit with observed acts and facts more than "Kenny Rogers is a harmless weirdo" theory.

And once hitters know the ball might do weird things (dance, like a spitball), it's even harder to hit because you have to recognize a pitch *and* you have to recognize where it's going. Good luck doing *both* of those things; doing one's hard enough as it is.

"3. As David pointed out, Rogers was at least as effective after the hand-washing as he was before. If the guck was artificially enhancing his performance, how do you explain innings 2 through 8?"

I guess Barry Bonds' past steroid use doesn't matter because he had an excellent year as a clean 41 year old.

not to get all "grassy knoll" on this, and maybe i'm missing this mentioned somewhere else: i don't have HD, but it did seem to me that there could have been pine tar (or something) on the back of kenny's cap. this would be in line with him touching that location before each pitch. the size and location of the stain on the base of his thumb would indicate that he "missed" a couple of times getting it on his fingers. thus he could have cleaned the stain and still been able to effectively control the ball....

http://msn.foxsports.com/id/6089062_7_2.jpg

http://msn.foxsports.com/id/6089496_36_2.jpg

First picture shows the spot on the back of his cap, the second shows the "dirt" on the ball.