Baseball Musings
Baseball Musings
January 15, 2009
Why Is Bly not Fly?

John Heyman made a comment during the MLB Network Hall of Fame show that cut both ways for me. Rich Lederer, long time advocate for Bert Blyleven's Hall of Fame induction transcribes Heyman's remarks:

"I never thought [Bert Blyleven] was a Hall of Famer when he was playing, and I saw him play his entire career."

"[His popularity] is based on a lot of younger people on the Internet who never saw him play."

"It's not about stats...it's about impact."

- Jon Heyman on MLB Network, 1/12/09

Patrick Sullivan, another writer at Baseball Analysts, looks into poor award voting and its effects on Hall of Fame ballotting. Bert didn't do well in the Cy Young voting, and that's held against him as well.

The question for me is, why is there such a huge difference between the stats and the perception? This query is especially important to me, because to a certain extent I sympathize with Heyman on this one. Unlike Heyman, I can be convinced otherwise.

The Minnesota factor doesn't ring true to me. Yes, it was a small market, but growing up during the 1970s I was well aware of players like Tony Oliva and Rod Carew, both who more than got their due winning batting titles. With 12 teams in the AL at the time, the Twins would play the big markets in the east four times during the season, giving someone like Blyleven the possibility of three or four starts. Sports writers in the east saw him pitch more than enough. They just weren't impressed with what they saw.

The biggest reason stems from the disconnect between Blyleven's ERA and his winning percentage. Were his stats deceiving? Was there something about the distribution of his runs allowed that is fooling the "younger people on the Internet who never saw him play?"

I decided to look at games scores in a probabilistic fashion. Given a particular game score, or range of game scores, what is the probability of winning that start? The probability of losing that start? If Blyleven's expected wins and losses are in line with his actual wins and losses, then the people unimpressed when they saw him play have a point. If his game scores indicate Bert should have won a lot more, or lost a lot less, then his Hall candidacy looks much better. I took all games in the Day by Day Database, currently from 1957 through 2008, and built the following model, using Game Score divided by 10 to smooth things out.

GameScore/10GSWLWPctLPct
117300.4290.000
10331630.4850.091
9894794160.8880.018
8838376371920.9110.023
7217951695718980.7780.087
6361892085267480.5760.186
54325416691125480.3860.290
4379968322162150.2190.427
3311372399181850.0770.584
219781380143860.0190.727
159432550160.0040.844
0104509520.0000.911
-1130120.0000.923
-21010.0001.000

The two percentages are per start, not per decision. Now this is not a perfect model. It should probably be adjusted for era, but with over 50 years of data, I suspect those things even out. With this data, we can take each individual start, add up the probabilities for each game score, and get expected wins and expected losses. I did this for every pitcher who collected 200 starts between 1957 and 2008. I also calculated the ratio 100.0*Wins/PredWins and 100.0*Losses/PredLosses. A value over 100 for wins indicates the pitcher won more game than expected. A value over 100 for losses indicates the pitcher lost more game than expected.

Note that at very high game scores, pitchers don't win that often. That seems counter intuitive until you realize that really high game scores often happen in extra-inning games. Once the scores get into the 80s, there's a nice downward progression of winning percentage, and a nice upward progression of losing percentage. A score of 50 is neutral, and you can see that above 50, pitchers win more often than they lose, and below 50 pitchers lose more often than they win.

Three hundred fifty five pitchers qualified, and here they are the top 20 ranked by Win Ratio. For the full list, click here.

PitcherGSWLPredWinPredLossWRatioLRatio
Mark Mulder2031036075.975.1135.7579.85
Andy Pettitte426214126159.7152.2133.9682.79
Darren Oliver228827762.799.7130.8477.26
Bill Lee225977974.686.5130.0591.31
Aaron Sele352144109111.7141.3128.9077.11
Ramon Ortiz210817863.487.3127.7589.38
Charles Nagy297128102101.0114.9126.7388.73
Kenny Rogers474198134156.6184.2126.4372.76
Russ Ortiz2531098286.896.5125.5685.01
Bartolo Colon31314997118.9110.7125.2987.60
Kirk Rueter33612992103.5136.1124.6067.60
Scott McGregor309136104109.2116.3124.5489.41
Jon Garland2551048883.6101.3124.4786.90
Paul Byrd2501018982.198.9123.0990.02
James Baldwin202796964.282.7123.0983.48
David Wells489221144180.0177.8122.7781.01
Scott Erickson364142136117.2149.3121.2091.10
Warren Spahn296156102128.993.1121.07109.56
Lew Burdette2511128792.594.0121.0692.51
Pat Hentgen306126110105.0115.7120.0095.06

Blyleven ranked 309th in Win Ratio, 92.46. He started 685 games, and compiled a record of 286-248 in those games. His expected won-loss record was 309-205. The loss number is somewhat more interesting. Not only did Blyleven fall short on wins, but his ability to go deep in games while his team didn't score saddled him with an extra 43 losses, a Loss Ratio of 121.03. If he puts up those 286 wins with 220 losses, my guess is that he would have been in the Hall a long time ago.

The person just ahead of Bert in Win Ratio is Don Sutton. Don compiled a 321--253 record in his starts, when he should have been 347-224. By reaching the magic 300 level, Don made the Hall, but there were quite a few people who felt the same way about Sutton that they did about Bert.

Of course, next to Nolan Ryan, Bert can't complain too much. Ryan ranked 348 out of 355, and his predicted record was 384-209! (He compiled a 318-291 record in his starts.) That's a Win Ratio of 82.91 and a Loss Ratio of 138.97. The only person in the study with a worse Loss Ratio than Ryan was Bob Gibson at 139.71. My guess is if we adjust for era and parks, Gibson's prediction might be more in line with his record.

Of the 300 game winners in the study, only one pitcher is shown as being undeserving, Tom Glavine. His record of 305-203 in starts should have been closer to 267-232. Glavine will go down as the anti-Blyleven, someone good but not great who makes the Hall because he played on very good teams during his career.

In conclusion, it's fairly obvious that Blyleven pitched well enough to win 300 games, and other factors not only kept his win total low, but greatly inflated his loss total. Seen in this light, there's no doubt Bert should get the Hall call.

Update: See an interesting graph based on the data here.


Posted by David Pinto at 07:43 PM | All-Time Greats | TrackBack (0)
Comments

OK, you lost me.

So...Blyleven was not only better than we thought, he was lots and lots better. Heck, he was better than Warren Spahn, right?

Like I said...you lost me.

Posted by: Gary at January 15, 2009 08:12 PM

I didn't say he was better than anyone. My point is that his game scores support that notion that his won-loss record was a fluke, and people who vote on the basis of that record should think again.

Posted by: David PInto at January 15, 2009 08:21 PM


Great stuff, David. I was going to look at Blyleven and Hunter on a game-by-game basis for 1973, but I probably won't bother now.


Now, I'm just waiting for Bandit to show up and say that you don't know wtf you're talking about...

Posted by: Lyford at January 15, 2009 10:24 PM

Not sure I completely understand this, but do you mean that Blyleven lost games due to poor run support, and Glavine won more due to good run support? I thought the Braves offense wasn't all that good and cost him and Maddux wins. Or do you mean that he exited early and the bullpen held an early lead up?

Posted by: Yaramah at January 15, 2009 11:06 PM

Oooh, this looks like a great way to analyze Bert. Use his actual performance (which us stat kids know is underrated) and put it in terms that the old fogies will understand (wins and losses).

Only thing I see is this:

"I took all games in the Day by Day Database, currently from 1957 through 2008, and built the following model, using Game Score divided by 10 to smooth things out."

There's been a lot of run fluctuation over that stretch. If one was to do a REALLY detailed analysis on JUST Blyleven (unlike the many players you've done here), wouldn't the more accurate way be to build the model just on Bert's active years?

Also, do you think it would make sense to re-adjust the probabilistic results from the game scores for each year or if the era as a whole would be enough?

I'm very interested in Bert's case and this has been a unique take on it. Great work.

Posted by: Adam Darowski at January 15, 2009 11:10 PM

Yaramah,

I'm not trying to judge the reasons for the wins or losses. It could be poor or good run support, it could be poor or good bullpen support. Using this model, Blyleven should have won more starts than he did, and Glavine should have won less.

Adam, I do think it makes sense to adjust the probabilities. That's a lot more work for me, however. :-)

Posted by: David Pinto at January 15, 2009 11:48 PM

Ok, this is a great post. I love it. Up until a couple months ago, I was always of the opinion that Bly was just short of HOF material.

I just love the idea that he lost more games because of his durability. In other words, if he wasn't as good a pitcher as he was, then people probably would've thought of him as a HOF pitcher. The irony is poetic....in a classic way....in a Greek tragedy kind of way.

This stat study just endeared me to Blyleven.

Posted by: Devon Young at January 16, 2009 12:44 AM

You know, us old foggies can still like wins and losses and still understand sabermetrics.

As someone who actually saw Blyleven pitch, I knew he was a Hall of Famer, and not because of ANY number you assign to him.

That's a pretty arrogant statement you makes.

Posted by: Ron at January 16, 2009 10:33 AM

As a fan who watched Bert and as someone who has compared his stats against his peers, there is really no question that he belongs. Maybe next year will be the one. Good luck to you Bert!
God I loved to see that big bender curveball.

Posted by: Bert fan at January 16, 2009 01:17 PM

I was a Twins fan in the 1970's and I watched Blyleven pitch. BTW, by the time Blyleven was in top form, the Twins were no longer the poserhouse of Killebrew, Carew & Oliva. Oliva was out in 1972 and Killerbrew was gone by 1973 and replaced in the lineup by Joe Lis and Craig Kusic (in 74). In 1974, Blyleven went 17-17 was "the ace" with a 2.66 era and 281 IP, 244 h 99 r 77 BB and 249 K's While Carew was hitting well, Oliva's arthritic knees had turned a 325 hitter into a 280 dh.

In 1984, a 34 year old Blylevven went 19/7 with 12 cg and 4 shutouts and a 2.87 ERA over 245 innings and 204 h, 86 runs (78 earned), 74 BB's and 170 K's for the Cleveland Indians, yet onother abysmal performing franchise.

By today's standards, Blyleven was a stud. He always brought his A-game and the games the Twins lost when he was on the mound were not lost by Bert Blyleven, but by poor Twins teams of the Larry Hisle Don Ford vintage.

Posted by: Carlos at January 16, 2009 03:23 PM

When Blyleven came to town you wanted to go to the game. Even if your team was less likely to win you wanted to see that bizarre curve ball.

Posted by: Marv at January 17, 2009 01:27 PM

Would love to see if there is any parallel with attendance in away games for the top pitchers of any era. If a guy like Blyleven, who I am a big fan of, drew large crowds like some of the other studs of the time (Carlton, Seaver, Perry, Sutton, etc) it would be interesting.

Posted by: Alan at January 17, 2009 04:19 PM

With Ryan rating as low as he does, it makes me believe that the strikeouts, as a factor in game score, is weighted too heavily. You could probably come up with a better model for estimating whether or not a pitcher would win based on just innings pitched and runs allowed. It might be better to evaluate Ryan and Blyleven (who was also a good strike out pitcher) that way - as well as everyone else.

Larry

Posted by: Larry at January 18, 2009 06:15 PM
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