I was not aware that there is a theory that Venezuela threw the game with Cuba for political reasons. Conductor debunks that idea at Cuban-American Pundits.
Just because Cuba was the underdog does not mean that they had no chance to win the game. After all, that’s why they play them. The 1993 Florida Marlins were terrible. Probably the worst team in baseball, but even so they managed to win 64 games.
I guess this is one of the ugly byproducts of Castro and the 47-year nightmare he has inflicted upon Cubans. We see ghosts. Sometimes they are there. Sometimes they aren’t. He’s disoriented us to the point that some of us are irrational.
The Venezuelan offense did not play up to snuff in this tournament. But anything can happen in a sample size that small. I have to agree with Conductor’s conclusions.
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very good article…funny how the article is entirely about baseball til the last paragraph where he throws in the rant about castro…funny stuff.
ps- who said cuba was the underdog? certainly not me. cuba is the reigning olympic gold medal team. sure venezuela is stocked but i still dont think overall they are as good or as balanced as cuba.
i actually never heard of the conspiracy theory til i read that article.
Well it doesn’t surprise me that you would not have heard the conspiracy theory because it was something that was being discussed on Spanish radio in Miami among Cuban-Americans. I would not call what I wrote at the end a rant but rather a statement of fact. 47 years of dictatorship, 47 years of misery. Ghosts that are real… Did you know that Ana Belen Montes was a Cuban spy in the Pentagon that got arrested within a week of 9/11? She was the military’s top Cuba advisor. And now she’s serving 30 years because she betrayed her country (the US, she’s puerto rican). Less than 3 months ago a pair of Miami professors were arrested as spies. A Cuban air force pilot that defected to the US was actually a spy. He married a Cuban-American woman as his cover and infiltrated Brothers to the Rescue, an exile group that flew over the straights of florida during the rafter crisis of the mid 90s. His information led to the shoot down of two of those planes killing 4 people (3 of them US citizens). We just celebrated the 10th anniversary of that tragedy. Is that a rant? Or is it FACT? So when I say there are real ghosts and there are perceived ghosts, we have reasons to see them.
your underdogs just beat Puerto Rico to advance to the semi finals.
Also, the brothers to the rescue planes you speak of were shot down only after flying over the cuban border and spying in Cuba (an act of war). This was not the first time they did this and had recieved warnings to cease and desist.
conductor are you in Alpha 66?
Free the Cuban Five
No I am not in Alpha 66 but you sir are obviously a comunista. Knowing that, I would not normally dignify your response but I will not let a lie stand. For the rest of you, here are the facts.
On several occasions Brothers to the Rescue Planes, did fly over Cuba. Their act of “war” dropping leaflets not bombs.
On the date of the shootdown one of the three BTTR planes did cross into Cuban air space, but ironically was not one of the ones that was shot down. The other two were shot down and all four aboard killed.
Contrary to mr. comunista’s account, international law does consider a violation of air space (which as already explained, the two planes in question did not do) to be an act of war. Particulary since these were unarmed civilian aircraft. International law does not allow for the shootdown of civilian aircraft. That is why Cuba was roundly condemned by the United Nations for that act (something which is extremely remarkable considering that body’s love of fidel castro and hatred of the US.)
There’s enough material out there for anyone to confirm exactly what I have said.
Oh and the “Cuban 5” that mr. comunista refers to are 5 Cuban nationals that were also convicted of spying on the US in federal court. Their case currently under appeal. They were part of a larger spy ring (several of them just pled guilty and some escaped to Cuba) but these 5 have become fodder for Cuban propaganda. Fortunately our courts are not influenced by communist (or any other type) of propaganda so I’m not worried about little slogans.
You all should understand that there are people who support the castro regime who’s only mission in life is to discredit its opponents. They will insult us, provoke us, lie about us, etc. These are the real ghosts that we see. Just read my response to mr. comunista’s first comment and then read the way in which he responds to me. He lies about the BTTR shootdown and then accuses me of being in a defunct old school paramilitary anti-castro group. And he signs off with “free the Cuban 5” which you will find on every official web site of the Cuban media. Except they call them the Miami 5. So I’ll leave it up the reader to determine what’s what and who’s who.
Don’t worry, conductor. Nobody’s fooled by folks like Mr. Flynn. The American left, center & right ought to be able to come together in rejecting those who would excusemonger for the Castro regime.
One day soon it’s all going to come tumbling down…and then the people who made excuses for it are going to have much to answer for in the court of public opinion.
“One day soon it’s all going to come tumbling down…and then the people who made excuses for it are going to have much to answer for in the court of public opinion.”
Jeff, I think you copied that from a paper i wrote in college about Mr. Bush and his war.
“They will insult us, provoke us, lie about us, etc.”
Mr. Conductor,
So far in this thread you have been the only one doing the insulting. All i have done is refute your facts with facts of my own. I even said your article was well written. You calling my argument “lies” does not make your argument any more valid. Neither one of our accounts is 100% correct as neither of us were there ( I wasnt- i certainly hope you werent). I am not a supporter of Castro. I support Cuba and i believe our country could learn quite a few things from the cuban model (universal healthcare, 0% AIDS 0% Homelessness, 100 % literacy..money for medicine and education not for bombs…)
I never acused you of being in Alpha 66, i ASKED if you were in Alpha 66 (not defunct). That is a very fair question because of your association with Brothers to the Rescue, a group closely aligned with A66.
Mr. Pinto, I dont know if this site has any guidlines for posting or not, but please inform your readers to stop online harassment. It is both immature and disrespectul.
Mr. Conductor, Please apologize and desist any further name-calling and harassment. I am always open to debate this or any other topic, provided the dialogue be kept civil.
Not that it matters but i am not a communist.
Now, for some facts:
You claim the BTTR planes were civilian, yet the letters USAF were clearly visible on at least one of the planes
Source 1:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brothers_to_the_Rescue
Source 2:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/cuba/010500-terror.htm
Those are 2 non-biased sources that detail terrorist activities against cuba. I have many more readily available, however I do not think they would be “fair and balanced” as mr. o’reilly likes to say. Sites like http://www.therealcuba.com may have a wealth of information, but how truly valuable is that information if its slanted as much as sites like therealcuba or hermanos?
Also, it is my deep belief that many Americans owe their lives to the Cuban 5. They even warned the FBI of a 9/11 type attack long before it happened.
The Cuban Five are five Cuban men who are in U.S. prison, serving four life sentences and 75 years collectively, after being wrongly convicted in U.S. federal court in Miami, on June 8, 2001.
They are Gerardo Hern?ndez, Ram?n Laba?ino, Antonio Guerrero, Fernando Gonz?lez and Ren? Gonz?lez.
The Five were falsely accused by the U.S. government of committing espionage conspiracy against the United States, and other related charges.
The Five pointed out vigorously in their defense that they were involved in monitoring the actions of Miami-based terrorist groups, in order to prevent terrorist attacks on their country of Cuba.
The Five?s actions were never directed at the U.S. government. They never harmed anyone nor ever possessed nor used any weapons while in the United States.
The Cuban Five?s mission was to stop terrorism
For more than 40 years, anti-Cuba terrorist organizations based in Miami have engaged in countless terrorist activities against Cuba, and against anyone who advocates a normalization of relations between the U.S. and Cuba. More than 3,000 Cubans have died as a result of these terrorists? attacks.
Terrorist Miami groups like Comandos F4 and Brothers to the Rescue operate with complete impunity from within the United States to attack Cuba?with the knowledge and support of the FBI and CIA.
Therefore, Cuba made the careful and necessary decision to send the Five Cubans to Miami to monitor the terrorists. The Cuban Five infiltrated the terrorist organizations in Miami to inform Cuba of imminent attacks.
The aim of such a clandestine operation by the Cuban Five?at great personal risk?was to prevent criminal acts, and thus protect the lives of Cubans and other people.
But instead of arresting the terrorists, the FBI arrested the Cuban Five ANTI-terrorists on September 12, 1998. The Five were illegally held in solidarity confinement for 17 months in Miami jail.
The trial began in November 2000. With the seven-month trial based in Miami, a virtual witchhunt atmosphere existed. Defense attorneys? motions for a change of venue were denied five times by the judge, although it was obvious that a fair trial was impossible in that city.
In a blow to justice, the Cuban Five were convicted June 8, 2001 and sentenced to four life terms and 75 years in December, 2001.
Oh, and my original point from who knows how long ago…Its lookin real good for Cuba in the WBC right now…
http://www.pastorsforpeace.org
http://www.freethefive.org
http://www.cubasolidarity.net
Free the Five!
Cuba Si ~ Bloqueo No!
VENCEREMOS!
Attention readers: Wikipedia is an online encyclopedia that is written and edited by users not experts. Anyone can write whatever they want there, it’s little more than a message board.
The signatures that our friend signs his post with tell me that my hunch was right. We are in the presence of a comunistoide.
I have no interest in a “debate” with someone who is very disingenuous.
And for the record I have no affiliation with Alpha 66 or brothers to the rescue. I’m merely an observer of history. Real history not communist revisionism.
Wikipedia is one of the finest sources of information of any topic on the internet. You obviously do not understand the concept of a democratic means of disseminating information. And yes, experts do write in it too.
Keep the insults coming buddy. Real mature. At least you got your spanish gender correct this time and at least i do not associate with a known terrorist organization.
“And for the record I have no affiliation with Alpha 66 or brothers to the rescue.”
Interesting because in an earlier post you said:
“We just celebrated the 10th anniversary of that (BTTR) tragedy. ”
How does somebody with no affiliation to a group take part in that group’s events?
It is my belief that mr. conductor has never been to cuba and has no real idea of what life is really like there. He/she only fuels the fire that is being burned by the Miami based right-wing anti-cuba terrorists (which i aslo believe conductor is associated with).
Mr. Pinto I apologize to you for taking over a small part of your blog. If I had known this gentleman’s views I would never responded to him in the first place. I leave it to the readers to determine who is telling the truth and who spouts propaganda. Who has empathy for the death of innocent civilians and who doesn’t. Whether a person, or group of persons, can honor the memory of a tragedy without actually being involved in that tragedy. I don’t know anyone that was killed on 9/11 but I commemorate that date as well. I don’t know what’s so hard to understand about that.
The last statement I’ll make is to say that the Cuban healthcare system is so good that patients have to bring their own bed linens with them to the hospital. So good that there is a cottage industry in Miami of shipping medicines to Cuba because even the most basic medications are not available. So good that many clinic are not even staffed because the doctors are off doing internationalist missions in countries castro is trying to curry favor with. Zero AIDS? First of all according to whose numbers? Cuba’s? It is well known that in the 80s Cuba gathered all AIDS patients in concentration camps.
Before Mr. C. starts posting about the embargo, I’ll pre-empt him and tell you that Cuba is free to trade with every other country in the world. It can obtain any good the world produces. Cuba’s largest food supplier is the US which sells to Cuba on a cash up front basis. Medicines are also exempted from the embargo.
Mr. Pinto, that’s it. That’s my peace. I will not indulge Mr.C. in any more “debate.” I will limit my posts on your blog to baseball as much as I can.
One last point:
Your analogy comparing 9/11 to BTTR is wrong on many levels. First of all 9/11 was not an orgainzation with a mission. BTTR was. I too hate to see any life lost, espcially for the wrong reasons such as BTTR or Iraq but there is a difference between mourning and using a tragedy to fuel propoganda for your cause. (you and mr. bush have much in common)
Cuba exports their world class doctors to countries such as Venezuela in exchange for a reduced oil rate. It is a tough sacrifice, but in order to afford oil and all that goes along with it for 11M people one must be creative. Cuba will continue to produce some of the best doctors in the world (check out on google: Latin American School of Medicine)
Cuba-Venezuela relations are becoming ever closer, each relying on its comparative advantage. Venezuela is providing low-cost oil, while in return Cuba organises literacy and health programmes, sending thousands of highly skilled professionals, teachers and doctors, who work in the poorest and most neglected areas, as they do elsewhere in the third world.
Cuban medical assistance is also being welcomed elsewhere. One of the most horrendous tragedies of recent years was the earthquake in Pakistan last October. Besides the huge death toll, unknown numbers of survivors have to face brutal winter weather with little shelter, food or medical assistance.
“Cuba has provided the largest contingent of doctors and paramedics to Pakistan,” paying all the costs (perhaps with Venezuelan funding), writes John Cherian in India’s Frontline magazine, citing Dawn, a leading Pakistan daily.
President Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan expressed his “deep gratitude” to Fidel Castro for the “spirit and compassion” of the Cuban medical teams – reported to comprise more than 1,000 trained personnel.
Concentration camps? You are sadly mistaken. Cuba provided inpatient programs for HIV cases as well as taking in hundreds of children scarred from the nuclear disaster in Cherynobl. That concentration camp statement borders on the insane.
“Cuba is free to trade with every other country in the world. It can obtain any good the world produces.”
Wrong again, my friend. The US forces multinational companies to make a choice: whether to trade with Cuba or trade with US. This is spelled out clearly in the “Trading with the Enemy Act” as well as the “Libertad and Democracy Act” and the “Helms-Burton Act.” Im not going to go into the specifics of any of those laws but a simply google search will produce a wealth of information. If you were the president of a company in say, Japan, and you are about to sell a considerable amount of your product to Cuba, then all of a sudden the US comes along and says if you trade with cuba then you cant trade with us- who are you gonna pick? the richest country in the world or one in the bottom third?
Real cute how you refer to me as “Mr. C” – You are now Mr. t (the capital t is already taken) for terrorista. Mr t is one who chooses to associate with known terrorist organations that operate both domestically and internationally (BTTR, Alpha 66 etc). Mr. t associates himself that harass those whose views differ from those of himself. Mr t prefers neoconservative reactionary fundamentalism to progressive democratic society. Go get ready for the next Bay of Pigs invasion.
Lastly, contrary to anything Mr. t may say, i am no real fan of castro. I had the oppurtunity to see him speak on 26 de Julio in Havana last year and found him very smart and well spoken (for 4 hours!) and while i agreed with some of the things he had to say about US-Cuba relations i do not agree with the way his government chooses to censor the press and crush those deemed counter-revolutionaries (a very similar situation to contemporary US). USA keeps fueling castro’s fire. The unnessary and immoral blockade, the constant assasination attempts, the illegal detention center in Guantanamo all give what Mr. Castro has to say some credence. Mr. t you should be aware of that.
Mr. t please educate yourself with some reputable sources, unlike the miami mafia ones you are some close to. Here i share some with you and anyone else interested:
http://www.antiterroristas.cu
http://www.freethefice.org
http://www.pastorsforpeace.org
http://www.granma.cu
CUBA SI ~ BLOQEUO NO!
FREE THE FIVE!
VIVA CUBA! VIVA BESIBOL!
TEAM CUBA ALL THE WAY!