I’ve been listening to and reading some criticism of Willie Randolph, as you might expect after such an epic collapse. I find it interesting, however, that one is how even tempered he is. When he stands at the top of the dugout, you don’t see him get emotional, good or bad. Now, this surprises me as a criticism, because I’ve spent most of my life listening to that kind of behavior get positive reviews. (Look at him, you can’t tell if the team is winning or losing!) It strikes me that Willie is very much Joe Torre in this regard. So Mets fans, do you have any legitimate criticisms of Willie? When I look at the aggregate Mets lineup, it looks pretty solid. High OBA players at the top, sluggers in the middle, poor hitters at the bottom. The pitchers did well in close and late situations, saying to me that Randolph got the relief matchups right most of the time. I don’t watch enough games to comment on in game strategy. The Mets were second in sacrifice hits, but the majority of those came out of the pitcher’s spot. The Mets stole with an 81% success rate, so he called for steals with the right runners at the right time. What exactly did Randolph do wrong other than show a lack of emotion?
Update: Here’s Matt Cerrone’s take:
…in the end, i believe this current group of players got a bit sloth like through much of the summer, and those bad actions became habit and spilled over in to crunch time…i hesitantly blame Willie Randolph, because while i respect his confidence and believe it is ultimately a good thing, i suspect it may also have helped to create a sense of entitlement that morphed in to a sense of apathy, which led to the team’s uninspired play…ultimately, however, i mostly fault the players, who are professionals, and yet who actually went on record as acknowledging their malaise, like Carlos Delgado, who in early September told reporters, “We’ve got so much talent, I think sometimes we get bored.”
The collapse can be blamed on three people: Glavine, Wagner and Reyes, all of whom had seriously substandard Septembers.
I’ve watched a fair amount of the Mets this season and to me it looks more like the guys who were on the field just fell apart during the last few weeks. Ever since they got swept in Philly in late August, they just didn’t seem to recover mentally. Like it made them lose their confidence or something. I love Reyes, but he’s been horrid over the past few weeks and I think that was because he started putting too much pressure on himself to steal all the time and worry too much when he’d get caught. It’s the team couldn’t shake off their mistakes and that brought them down.
Randolph, never seemed to make decisions that made me scratch my head or complain.
They were constructed with age at play in the rotation and bullpen and with patchwork and age around the field. Of their two young phenoms, one didn’t play well. Their great CFer gets booed half the season by his hometown fans. Many of these players played great for most of the season, but they didn’t complete the marathon. And, us baseball fans probably know that the Mets never had so much talent to be “bored.” Sure, they’re one of the best teams in the NL, but there a a host of others. As good as they are, they…didn’t complete the marathon.
The Mets didn’t lose because they didn’t want to win. I think that too much is already going in that direction. The Mets lost because baseball teams lose, even ones from New York and the Mets lost at the wrong time. What’s more, this viewpoint is entirely dismissive of pro baseball in general and specifically of the Phillies. Do Mets fans think that the Marlins were going to roll over for them? The Nationals? Come on now…
Was their collapse historic and unlikely? Yeah, sure it was. But, the Mets’ collapse was countered by the Phillies run. Credit them some too + the Pads and Rocks.
(And, no, I don’t think that Minaya or Randolph are particularly good at their jobs. And we can get into that later.)
They were constructed with age at play in the rotation and bullpen and with patchwork and age around the field. Of their two young phenoms, one didn’t play well. Their great CFer gets booed half the season by his hometown fans. Many of these players played great for most of the season, but they didn’t complete the marathon. And, us baseball fans probably know that the Mets never had so much talent to be “bored.” Sure, they’re one of the best teams in the NL, but there a a host of others. As good as they are, they…didn’t complete the marathon.
The Mets didn’t lose because they didn’t want to win. I think that too much is already going in that direction. The Mets lost because baseball teams lose, even ones from New York and the Mets lost at the wrong time. What’s more, this viewpoint is entirely dismissive of pro baseball in general and specifically of the Phillies. Do Mets fans think that the Marlins were going to roll over for them? The Nationals? Come on now…
Was their collapse historic and unlikely? Yeah, sure it was. But, the Mets’ collapse was countered by the Phillies run. Credit them some too + the Pads and Rocks.
(And, no, I don’t think that Minaya or Randolph are particularly good at their jobs. And we can get into that later.)
Sorry about the x2.
Nonsensical pitching changes, undue veteran preferences. Not PHing for Shawn Green against lefties. Overusing Paul Lo Duca. Use of Green/Valentin for majority of the year. Repeated use of G. Mota in high-leverage situations during a particularly brutal stretch, as if with each time he was trying to prove that he was right, by “testing his guy” again and again, despite repeated failure.
I still think the Mets made a big mistake by not making Manny Acta manager, but then again Acta uses Nook Logan at the top of the lineup. So who knows?
I don’t know anything about the validity of the ‘not fiery enough’ claim, but some have intimated that Randolph’s cool demeanor is not a good fit with the Mets’ flair and enthusiasm.
Everyone seems to forget that the Mets were missing their best pitcher for pretty much the entire season. Unless you’re the Yankees with a $200 million payroll, you honestly cannot expect to make it to the playoffs when you’re missing your ace for the entire season. Even Declining Pedro has got to be worth 3-5 wins over replacement, I’d think. And that’s what they had all year, a replacement player in for their ace. Blame Omar Minaya for buying a guy with a bum shoulder for 4 years.
Over at The Hardball Times there’s a table showing that the Mets had the largest decline in MLB in bullpen WPA from last year to this. Partly that’s the loss of Duaner Sanchez, partly the difference between Mota juiced and unjuiced, partly the difference between a whole good season from Bradford and a good month from Joe Smith. But a lot of it has to do with Randolph using his bullpen just like Torre: run the same guys out there every day until they’re exhausted, then keep running them out there anyway, even in lost causes, while ignoring the guys he doesn’t like. It doesn’t help, of course, that so few of the starting pitchers make it to the seventh inning. Some bad trades by Minaya hurt. Having Brian Bannister and Heath Bell back would’ve been nice.
I knew the Mets were in trouble yesterday before Glavine threw his first pitch: Joe West was working the plate. Tiny zone, no called strikes on outside or low pitches. That’s bound to be problematic for TG, who has to pitch to those spots to survive because he’s got no “stuff” anymore, no movement on his pitches.
weeks. Ever since they got swept in Philly in late August, they just didn’t seem to recover mentally.
They went 10-2 after that sweep. It was the second sweep, in mid-September, that seemed to have killed them.
People are nuts if they want to blame Willie. Sure, he makes the occasional bad move, but it wasn’t his fault that Tom Glavine couldn’t get a batter out, or that David Wright forget there was a force at third on Friday, or that Omar traded away a bunch of young bullpen arms. We want some sort of scapegoat for this mess, but it was a team effort.
looks to me like an older veteran team that needed to be rested in September instead of struggling. they needed a big lead in the division like last year. When that didn’t happen, they were in big trouble.
Steve s
Compare the “older, veteran” Mets with two “older, veteran” playoff teams: the Yankees and Red Sox. One difference that jumps out at me, is the relative contributions from young pitchers. The Sox and Yanks got a big boost from their young arms, especially late in the season. Meanwhile, the Mets’ “can’t-miss” prospects, Pelfrey and Humber, didn’t do anything. With all the age on the Mets’ pitching staff, that was crucial.
Now, is that Minaya’s fault (developing minor-leaguers for big-league success)? Or is it Randolph and/or Rick Peterson (handling and coaching young pitchers)? Don’t know.
Otherwise… I’d blame Minaya more than Randolph. He’s the one who assembled a high-priced lineup, didn’t address the rotation, and weakened the bullpen. Given the starting rotation they were running out there, it’s kind of surprising the Mets got as far as they did.
My order of blame:
1. Players: Glavine gave us nothing down the stretch, Reyes’ second half, Delgado’s entire year, even loduca’s onbase percentage. They missed alot of production from players they were counting on to at least perform close to what they gave last year.
2. Farm system, so in a way Minaya?. Not having any arms they could bring up that they had confidence in. Being able to give the bullpen a rest early in the month would have helped.
3. NY media/fans. Its tough to criticize minaya for trading away Heath Bell, when whenever a young kid gives up a run he’s on the back page of the NY Post and fans boo him. Its not an atmosphere that encourages supporting a young player through their struggles. Its either superstar or bust. Look at Joe Smith, everyone loves him for april and then turns on him when he starts to struggle. As a result go with “proven” veterans who get overused and tired over young arms like lindstrom, bell, ring, and owens.
4. Lady Luck
The Mets were just never that good. Their run diff was never very impressive; they won a ton of one-run games because Wagner was papally infallible for most of the season.
Now, even a so-so team should bring it home with a seven-game lead with 17 to go. Arizona hung on, after all. But when you’re not a dominant team or anywhere close, a collapse is always more likely.
Really, it’s kind of surprising that the Braves didn’t catch them instead of the Phillies. Atlanta had the best run diff in the division but their midseason bullpen problems sank them.
Speaking of run diff, Colorado’s late run spared the NL the embarrassment of not having even one team on the triple-digit plus side. The Rockies barely made it at +101…and that may disappear after the tie-breaker.
Y’know, David: I quite agree with you: on the averages, and by the numbers, the 2007 Mets were a fairly solid team. A team which disappointed fans (like those on Matt Cerrone’s blog) screaming for Willie Randolph’s head seem to forget led the division with a fine record for the bulk of the ’07 season. Despite their various roster problems (the bullpen most of all).
So how DO you explain the Meltdown Mets of 2007?
IS it the field manager’s fault? The front office? The players? Just plain old crap luck?
I think there is enough “blame” to go around among all parties, but unless the Mets (players AND management) can get their act together to at least seem to do something to correct the problems for next season, they will end up cratering the franchise (again!) – which, as far as the fans go, will, I think, make the current wailing-and-gnashing look tame.
Oh, and if “doing something” means axing Willie: too bad.
I’m fine with axing Willie, but the players pissed away the post season. He’s is an improvement over Howe, but he’s no leader, no strategist. There’s more to the job than staying calm. He lost the clubhouse by midseason. Neither he nor Peterson have a clue how to manage a bullpen. Omar was obviously wrong to move Heath Bell, but why wouldn’t he do it? Willie and Peterson never let the kid play. Re shipping out Vets, there will be a great deal of movement. It should start with Glavine, he is done. No shame in the Hall of Fame career. But the guy showed more emotion and frustration over a lack of run support when he was chasing #300 than he did over choking in game 162 with the season on the line. Don’t let the door hit you…
You can’t blame Willie for this collapse, but he’s certainly made some questionable moves all year, most of which have been mentioned above (Another I’d mention is not using Scott Schoenweis, who kills LHB but is terrible against RHB, as a LOOGY). It’s certainly plausible that his managing cost the Mets 1-3 games, which, obviously, would have made the difference in the division race.
I also agree that Willie should have given the young pitchers more opportunities, (although, to be fair, guys like Willie Collazzo didn’t pitch particularly well in the opportunities they got).
On the other hand, the alternatives to Willie don’t impress me either. Whatever’s Willie’s faults, he’s certainly better than a Larry Bowa or Dusty Baker. I don’t think Joe Girardi, with his authoritarian style, would be the right fit for this team either.
One thing that should be pointed out is that, for all the talk about the last 2 weeks, the Mets didn’t play well in June (12-15), July (13-14), or August (15-13) either. Had the put away the Philles when the Phils were struggling midseason, the past 2 weeks wouldn’t have mattered.
41-40 – that was their record at home this season, including 1-9 in their last ten at Shea. How is it that the team manged to win more road games than anyone else in the bigs, and then put up that kind of record at home? That just kills me, and it definitely killed their playoff chances.